Rebecca Wildbear - Leading a "Muse-Directed" Life

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello friends. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Luminous Youth Podcast. We invite you to journey with us as we question what it is to embody our evolving humanity and to feel embedded within place based culture. In these times of change, how can we restore these ways of deep connection from within our homes and family collectives to create a deeper sense of belonging and ecological intimacy? We look forward to exploring this with you all through the lens of education, human potential, cultural revitalization and parenting. We are standing upon Bundjalung country and we acknowledge the traditional ancestors of this land and all of the wisdom they carry, as well as the current traditional custodians and those emerging and all we have to learn from them and this beautiful and powerful country we find ourselves in. And now we invite you to take a moment to close your eyes if you're not driving, to take a few intentional breaths, to consciously slow down and to open your heart and your consciousness. Let's imagine we are around a community fire. A fire lit with the intention of seeing beyond what exists now. Tales of our glorious future written within the smoke, the flames, a sacred fire. Each stick meaningfully placed to assist us in seeing how we can co create what happens next in the great story of Earth and all her inhabitants. We are met there by those traveling this path alongside us, who have given us their time and their deep ponderings. Around us. There are many unseen beings supporting us in our exploration and heartfelt reweavings of life. We are supported and nourished by Earth below, stars above and all of the nature beings that exist alongside us, living their own lives with their own hopes and dreams. And we ask them to be with us, to help guide us. We invite our well and wise ancestors to the fire. We are braided together, standing tall, heads held high, deeply in tune with our creator, hearts weaving a beautiful future for our children and descendants through the power of our loving strong actions. Now together, Molleo Svensketlo Walaken May we spin this story powerfully into being in my mother tongue Proto Celtic. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Greetings luminous friends. Today I have an absolutely gorgeous woman with us. I feel so lucky to have Rebecca Wild Bear, one of our main mentors. Paul and I. We're so grateful for her wisdom and her energy and her continual bringing us back out of our heads and into the mystery deep into our hearts. Welcome Rebecca. [00:03:35] Speaker C: Thank you so much. [00:03:37] Speaker D: What a wonderful warm welcome. [00:03:39] Speaker C: Excited to be here with you. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Great. I'm just gonna start by reading a very just little quick bio for people who may not know who you are. I'm very Excited for them to know who you are. Rebecca Wild Bear is the author of Wild Yoga, a practice of initiation, veneration and advocacy for the Earth. She is also the creator of a yoga practice called Wild Yoga, which empowers individuals to tune into the mysteries that live within the earth community dreams and their own wild nature so that they may live a life of creative service. She has been leading Wild yoga programs since 2007 and also guides other nature and soul programs through the Animas Valley Institute. There's so much more to Rebecca, but that gives you a little, a little update. This is her beautiful book that I have beside my bed every night. I highly recommend it and I thought that that's where we could begin. Rebecca being this beautiful here in Australia, it is just the beginning of the Samhain season. So we're just kind of feeling like the gentleness return to the land and it's getting darker earlier and we're all sleeping in a bit more. And I'm feeling the veils beautiful and thin, not only between us and our ancestors, but us and the beautiful creatures that we get to share this land with. And I find that same energy just like woven throughout your words in this book. If ever I'm feeling really not connected, I just find reading your words just slowly brings me back to that. So I'm so grateful. And I wondered why you wrote this book. What is it that inspired you to actually write this? Because I know that's not an easy feat to bring that world into a structure, a written structure. So I'd love to just start there. Rebecca. [00:06:04] Speaker C: Well, I believe I wanted to help make the work that I do in the wilderness with people, the workplace that we do, more accessible so that more people might understand what it is and also make it possible that they might see how they would do it. Another way of putting it is I was hoping to help them fall in love with nature and want to come out there into nature and understand the deep relationship that's possible. And also with our own wild bodies, with the wilderness of our dreams, with. [00:06:41] Speaker D: The wilderness of our muse and our creativity. [00:06:44] Speaker C: And in large part what I'm talking about is a lot of non human voices that in the mainstream dominant culture usually don't get heard as actual voices. And they're, you know, as you and I know, like some of the most intelligent voices that are there for us to be in relationship with. So I wanted to write something that would make people fall in love with nature, with these other aspects of reality, and want to be in relationship with Them. [00:07:17] Speaker A: You certainly did. Something that I. That has been on my mind as I've worked with you and read your work and even listen to other podcasts, is because we work with youth, is this, this changing of the world where children are often inside rooms for large amounts of time, and now not only that, but their hands are just doing quite limited movements and feeling quite limited surfaces. Because I feel like our hands just inform so much of us and also obviously our bodies. And I know that also worked with children in many different scenarios. And so I wondered what you've observed and what you think with your. Your knowledge base, what the effect of that is. Yeah. How that affects their psyche, how that affects their ability to connect, and how that affects their forming and limitation. [00:08:31] Speaker C: You mean being kind of at a desk in a room all day long when they're young, sitting there. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Right, and all. And also. Yeah, absolutely. And also having a life dictated to them. Add that in. [00:08:47] Speaker C: Yeah. High level of structure and rules for a lot of the day. Well, sometimes I call kind of jokingly, kind of seriously modern education or mainstream education, the holocaust of the human soul in the wild body. So that might give you a sense of my impression, or we could even be more extreme. The genocide of the. Of the wild soul and the wild body of children. And partly I come to that through my own experience going through school and knowing, feeling the longings of my imagination and my body while I was sitting in a desk all day looking up, you know, looking out the window and imagining to, to kind of escape at times and be elsewhere. But also because I worked in an elementary school for about three and a half years after I got my master's degree. And so I worked with age children, pre K children age 3 to age 8. So pre K through second grade, it. [00:09:53] Speaker D: Was a large school with 700 kids. [00:09:55] Speaker C: If you can believe it, 10 kindergartens, 10 first grades and 10 second grades. But that's really the age where you. [00:10:01] Speaker D: Kind of watch that happening. [00:10:02] Speaker C: At least here in the US People in kindergarten, there's still play allowed. There's like stations and, you know, you. [00:10:11] Speaker D: Don'T sit at a desk too much of the time. [00:10:13] Speaker C: And also kindergarten is half day, so. [00:10:16] Speaker D: You'Re only in school half day and. [00:10:17] Speaker C: You'Re, you know, you're playing some of it. So that's, that's, that's actually seems kind. [00:10:23] Speaker D: Of normal for that age. [00:10:24] Speaker C: But the transition from, in our schools, kindergarten to first grade is huge because in first grade, you're suddenly going for a full day and all the, all the toys are gone. [00:10:35] Speaker D: Most of them. Many of them. [00:10:37] Speaker C: And suddenly it's just all desks. And a lot of the day you're. [00:10:41] Speaker D: You're sitting at a desk. [00:10:42] Speaker C: And I remember working with a young man. [00:10:47] Speaker D: This is actually already in my next. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Book, which I have. This story is in there, so you're getting a preview. But there was a young man in second grade, and his, his teacher sent him to me because I was the school counselor, because he was looking depressed and she was like, well, he's a really good student and it's just hard to see him sad all the time. And so I started just talking with. [00:11:06] Speaker D: Him and he was really quite innocent. [00:11:08] Speaker C: Like, he, you know, he's just answering my questions and I'm like, having him color this thing, I feel, you know. [00:11:14] Speaker D: And I'm asking, how do you feel. [00:11:16] Speaker C: When you're in school? And so I want you to just write a word and draw a picture. So he wrote the word dead and he. And he drew a picture of him sitting in the desk. And he was in second grade, so he wasn't being as smart Alec. He was just trying to be as honest as he could because he was eight. And so then I started asking him, well, when. When do you feel alive? And he's like, he, you know, he really, like, thought about it a while. Then he's like, well, when I'm fishing on the weekends with my dad and. And then I'm like, well, is there. [00:11:49] Speaker D: Is there any time at all at. [00:11:50] Speaker C: School that you feel alive? And again, he thought about it and guess what he said. [00:11:56] Speaker D: Recess. [00:11:57] Speaker C: No, he said recess. You know, that's the one time of a day where you can run around. So, yeah, there's a. It's, you know, kids have so much intact still of their wild nature as adults. I always tell people, if you don't know how to go out and play and be wild, go back to the. [00:12:16] Speaker D: First grader of yourself in your imagination. [00:12:19] Speaker C: That'S sitting in the desk all day and doesn't want to. [00:12:22] Speaker D: That one will remember how to play. [00:12:24] Speaker C: Go take him out of the classroom and say, we don't have to sit here today and then see what happens. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Yes. And you, you. Well, you told us that practice one for one of our sessions together. And I remember, I get emotional thinking about it. I remember I did that. I went outside and I was like, well, what would you like to do? Like, what would you like to do? Like giving her the, the lead of our play. And the first thing I did was just cried. Like, I just cried and cried. She felt like she cried and cried because she was just being heard again. Yeah, that playful young. [00:13:10] Speaker C: That makes sense. I mean like a lot of times when people think about go play with. [00:13:16] Speaker D: Your, go find your wild self and. [00:13:17] Speaker C: Go out and play, there's an assumption of like what wild means and it has to look like a certain thing and it's supposed to be like happy and exuberant and. But I, I just want to honor like sometimes it's sad and grief filled because it's the one that's been locked. [00:13:32] Speaker D: In a cage for so long. [00:13:34] Speaker C: So glad you, you could reconnected to that and got to feel. Feel her feelings. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And what, what is, what is our wild self? What would you, what would you. When people are asking you that, I imagine you get asked that all the time. How do you define. Because I feel like a lot of us living in this modern day actually don't really. It's, it's a concept. Like, it's a vague notion of like you said, like even, even on, you know, media and stuff. It's often a very tame, wild, sexy. Do you know what I mean? Like it. What is wild? What is really. What is wild? What is that wild self? [00:14:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think like one of the def definitions Bill Plotkin uses is self willed, which I like. One of the ways I just like to describe it is, is to say that it's unique. Like I can't exactly tell you what your wild self is. It's a practice of listening to your body, your heart, like the way you want to move, the way you want to be, the way you want to interact. [00:14:48] Speaker D: The challenge that comes is that we. [00:14:50] Speaker C: Humans are used to our mind directing everything. And so a lot of times when we talk about that concept, people like try to figure it out so that they can do it right. Or if they go out, they're like, they hear the voice in their head, I'm not doing it right, you know, and. Well, there isn't a right, you know, and that's the challenge. There isn't a right in terms of like, you know, the wild self can be like quiet and subtle. It can be loud and big. It can be, it can be so many things. And you know, one of the ways we might know that, that we're connected to it is if we're interacting in a way that's kind of without thought, without plan, without judgment, and we're just allowing ourselves to kind of explore, like. [00:15:32] Speaker D: What if, what if I was actually an animal? [00:15:35] Speaker C: What Like I kind of am, right? Our bodies are just like other wild animals. We just also have this brain up here that gives us help and causes us trouble. But if we can like drop our attention from this, this part of our body up here, the head, the mind. [00:15:48] Speaker D: And just drop down into the pelvic. [00:15:50] Speaker C: Bowl, into the, into the feet and just like explore, like what if this. [00:15:55] Speaker D: Was just the animal of me in relationship with the, with the wild. [00:16:02] Speaker C: And when we do that sometimes it can help us partly the wild. Another way of looking at what's the wild self. It's the part of us that is connected to nature and knows it inherently. It just feels it, it just can tell I, I am an animal. I am an alive being just like. [00:16:21] Speaker D: All the other parts of nature. [00:16:22] Speaker C: And you know, how does my body want to connect or relate to this world around me? How do I want to move in the water or dance with the wind or touch the tree? You know, how do I want to engage physically with the world around me? The wild world? [00:16:44] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, there's, so there's, there's definitely, I feel like when, yeah, there's definitely like a, an unlearning to happen. And for me over the years there's this constant stepping from my head into like sometimes a place like a fear. Like there's, there's like a fear sometimes that comes up and like stepping in and sitting in that often then allows me to break through through into to a deeper connection and therefore like this huge amount of love and yeah like this place of non judgment and just pure connection. But for me often what happens is there's this like fearful bit that comes first. Is that something that you. [00:17:43] Speaker C: Before the wild, before the wild self comes. You mean you feel. Yeah, I would say there, there's a lot of fear associated with the wild self. In fact, fear might be part of what helps stops us from getting into contact with the wild self. [00:17:59] Speaker D: But in a sense the wild self. [00:18:01] Speaker C: Is the part of us can, that can be emotional. [00:18:04] Speaker D: So even if we're afraid, we could. [00:18:07] Speaker C: Explore that in a way that is very connected to our wild self. We could, you know, maybe exaggerate or play with it or allow it, explore it even to ask myself what, what. [00:18:19] Speaker D: Is so scary about this? [00:18:21] Speaker C: You know, it makes sense why it would be scary in some ways because our, our world is kind of set on like plans and measures and outcomes and specifics. You know, where you're going to be, you know, what's going to happen. And, and the wild self is spontaneous and unpredictable and that can be very scary to parts of ourselves. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it can. And I guess the reason I wanted to tease that out is because I feel like that came up for me and for women I work on women and men that I work with in parenting from that place or in educating from that place in yes, having a plan, or yes, having a. Yes, having a plan, but also allowing that to go and to be present with what is and to actually see the true essence of our children in how they want to bloom and blossom over having this. This vision of them being this empty vessel that we must kind of fill with information and shape into these. To these people. And so for me, in the role I play in the world is like, I really feel like that that wild self is where I get to see these children in their truth as well. When I can, like, step through that fear of, like, if they don't go to school and they don't go, what if they all this, like. And then allow that or explore that, like you said, be with that and then. Or anyway, allow them to be who they are, allow them to unfold. And those are the moments that I've seen the truth of who my children are and the truth of who the kids we get to work with truly are. And that's such a gift and such a beautiful thing that it often kind of moves me to tears. It's just so, so, so, so hot, you know, like, it's just so much hard. And so, yeah, the other thing that I, that I, I love hearing from you about and who I've learned so much from and, and has also, like, just confirmed kind of my own natural meanderings and explorations is dreaming and, you know, tending our dreams and working with our dreams and more. Tending feels good for me. And I had the. The honor of you very quickly tending a dream in one of our sessions. And I have to say, like, it was. It was a really monumental experience in, in what this tending did. This tending, this, like, giving this dream that I had logically worked out meant a certain thing. Talking it out with someone in the way that I got to talk it out with you allowed it to actually come to life and, and be alive and not a stagnant meaning that's what it means kind of thing. It became this living thing that then I worked with every day for. For weeks. And I. And I know it will. It's still alive and it's still unfolding, and I'm sure I'll dip in and out of it for a really long time yet. And it's something I know you feel really passionate about. And I'm wondering if you can just kind of talk to that topic. This dream tending this, this working with our dreams and, and what that is. Why, why we should do it, why we can't, why the invitation is there to do it, like, what do we get out of it? And also I'd love to also hear how you work, if, or how you've worked with it and young people or families, because that's, that's kind of who we're, we're speaking to today. Because I know that I've done that with my kids in a really casual way. I too am a lover of Robert Moss's work and, and how he is so playful and, and, yeah, not so rigid and he makes it really accessible. And I've done that with my kids always. And it's been so rich and so, so many amazing conversations have come out of our half asleep, dream kind of meanderings in the mornings and before we go to sleep. So. And you've also got this amazing TED talk about it, which I'll add a link to the thing. [00:23:08] Speaker D: Yeah, great. [00:23:09] Speaker C: Well, I'm glad you shared that. And it sounds exciting in some ways, like you're living the question that you. [00:23:16] Speaker D: Asked me, you know, how do I. [00:23:17] Speaker C: Do it with families and the streaming thing. And you are doing it. And so, and I love how you name it as casual and playful. That sounds like such an inviting way in the family. Well, just, just for people that might. [00:23:33] Speaker D: Not listen to dreams or might not know about dreams. [00:23:36] Speaker C: You know, I think of dreams as. [00:23:38] Speaker D: A kind of wilderness too, just like. [00:23:40] Speaker C: Nature, but it's like the wilderness of the psyche, our psyche, the collective psyche. [00:23:45] Speaker D: In some ways. [00:23:46] Speaker C: We don't quite know where dream images come from. [00:23:50] Speaker D: People say, are they parts of myself. [00:23:51] Speaker C: Or are they just archetypal energies? Well, yes and yes. [00:23:56] Speaker D: And we might not know, you know, for sure. [00:23:59] Speaker C: There's been studies done about how a. [00:24:03] Speaker D: Lot of the world's spiritualities and religions came through dreams. [00:24:06] Speaker C: You can connect in different faith traditions how dreams started that conversation. And so in some ways you could say the dream world is a direct relationship with the divine or the mystery, you know, kind of a higher power. And it's like we're getting a specific. [00:24:23] Speaker D: Invitation in specific directions. [00:24:26] Speaker C: And so you might be. I'm just going to play the other, the sarcastic side. Like what? Like, dreams are ridiculous. [00:24:33] Speaker D: They can't be messages from the divine. [00:24:34] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:34] Speaker D: They're just nonsense of the brain. [00:24:36] Speaker C: That's often the mainstream view. [00:24:38] Speaker D: Dreams are nonsense of the brain. [00:24:40] Speaker C: I Think one of the mainstream views is they're just memories playing out, you know, things that need to be digested. [00:24:46] Speaker D: We've done studies on rats. [00:24:47] Speaker C: That's, that's what they tell us. And I'm like, my rebuttal is like. [00:24:52] Speaker D: Caged rats are not going to tell. [00:24:53] Speaker C: You much about human dream life. Um, so, you know, track your own. [00:24:58] Speaker D: Dreams, listen to other people's, inform your. [00:25:00] Speaker C: Own story from the experience. [00:25:02] Speaker D: I've listened to people's dreams for over 20 years and tracked my own for over 20 years. [00:25:08] Speaker C: And when I work with people individually, probably 75 to 80% of the time. [00:25:13] Speaker D: We'Re doing dream work. [00:25:15] Speaker C: And that's because, and I've worked as. [00:25:18] Speaker D: A psychotherapist for more than 15 years. [00:25:20] Speaker C: I'm still technically a psychotherapist too. [00:25:21] Speaker D: I mix things together. [00:25:23] Speaker C: But you know, I. What I'm trying to say is I've worked with people when humans have their. [00:25:28] Speaker D: Own agenda and they come and say, here's my emotions, here, here's my situations. [00:25:31] Speaker C: Here'S my problems, here's what I want to work on, here's what's going on. And I've also now worked mostly with dreams. Clients can choose whatever they want to work with. [00:25:40] Speaker D: It's just that my clients tend to. [00:25:41] Speaker C: Choose dreams more often. And when we work with dreams, they take us deeper than like whatever the mind could come up with. I think I probably told you this story, but I once had a client, it was our very first session together and she's like, can I just leap into working a dream? [00:25:59] Speaker D: I'm like, sure, let's do that. And at the end of the session. [00:26:02] Speaker C: She said, oh my God, I couldn't have told you anything more personal or right at the edge about myself than like was just naturally brought into by where this dream took us. [00:26:12] Speaker D: And that's where dreams are. [00:26:13] Speaker C: They we don't know by ourselves. We don't know what they mean. [00:26:17] Speaker D: When I listen to my own dreams. [00:26:19] Speaker C: Sometimes I can get certain level of meaning from them. [00:26:22] Speaker D: But it's hard because our own ego and conscious mind wants to block the message. So it's essential to work with somebody. [00:26:29] Speaker C: Whether it's a family member, a guide, a community member. [00:26:33] Speaker D: And that just really means that the basic listening to the dream, being told. [00:26:36] Speaker C: In the present tense, being curious, asking. [00:26:40] Speaker D: Open ended questions, exploring the dream, considering. I wonder what the dream wants this person to experience. I wonder why the dream would want. [00:26:48] Speaker C: This person to have this particular experience right now in their life. Things like that. [00:26:57] Speaker A: Yeah, amazing. I always get, sorry, get back to interviewer mode. Yeah, it's amazing. It's so amazing. And it's like the practice of writing it. And, and I love Robert Moss's recommendation where he says, like, have a book and you write your dream on one side and you leave the other page bare. And so you can go back to it or you can like make art, like as an honoring of it. And so often I've like written a dream. Half asleep, dribbling. Right, right, right. And then I just get on with my day because the day just starts and there's kids and there's drop offs and there's work and. And then I'll read it like a couple of months or weeks or whatever later and it's just like, oh my God, like I just had it recently and it just was actually something that then happened. So I think actually just taking the plunge to, to just do it is where that kind of confidence comes in that they are speaking to us and they are living beings who are in communication with us. And then, you know, then we work out how. What works for us and what doesn't work. But I feel it's, it's a powerful tool in parenting. I believe. I have experience. Because we can ask the dream maker questions too. Hey, like, and get. Maybe not that night for me. Sometimes it doesn't happen in a very linear fashion, but eventually, you know, there's hintings and there's like a little bit of directing towards the. The right answer or the, the answer I'm seeking, you know? Yeah. [00:28:49] Speaker D: Great. [00:28:50] Speaker C: Yeah. I love, Yeah, I just love that. [00:28:54] Speaker D: You'Re talking about engaging with the dream world. [00:28:56] Speaker C: It's engaging, you know, like, how do I engage with. It's like a conversation, you know, the. [00:29:01] Speaker D: Drawing, the writing, the ceremonies, the embodiment, the asking questions of the dream. [00:29:06] Speaker C: It's all engagement. [00:29:08] Speaker A: It is, it is. Because. Yeah. It's like they're. It's just like another world. They're like real in some way. Yeah. And that leads me to, to think about, like, what comes into my mind next is the darkness. And I think of. I think of like so many things when I think of darkness. I think of like such a feminine and I don't know about feminine. Like, I hope you understand everyone what I mean when I say feminine. But like, this, this, I guess it's the deepest mystery of all, isn't it? That darkness is being out in the dark. And you speak of this in your book and it's something I've. Yeah. I thought about for so many years and how, How Darkness deprived we are as a culture. And I watch. I watch my older kids, I have older kids who are like 20 and 18 and stuff, and, and the use now of technology. And like, really, darkness is only in their world when they're asleep. Until. Until the light, until they go to sleep. There's often some form of light. And for me, I've experienced some of my most profound experience, experiences in the dark. And I think that holds that. I don't know. For some reason I really associate it with that wildness because there's this fear that like, like is so embedded in my being of the darkness. I. I have this, like, simultaneous, like, yearning to be outside in the dark and. And then also this like, terror of being outside in the dark. And I know I've read so much about. I wish I had brought this, this quote. Maybe I'll write it in the notes of, like. I read a book about darkness and I can't even think of the name of it. And they talked about how in a lot of intact traditional cultures, the darkness was revered and seen as equally as important. And you would never light the dark because the darkness is this being that comes to bring out other aspects of our human humanness. And so I wonder in, like, your explorations with the darkness and you're writing about the darkness, how you see darkness and what, what maybe, like, role, for want of a better word, it plays in who we are as, as human beings and these like, wild creatures that live in a world that's equal dark to light. And yet we're not kind of. We're not kind of experiencing that part of our. Of our place of living. [00:32:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it's great to hear your sense of that curiosity and terror, which I think is sometimes what darkness evokes. It's like it's the unknown. It's what I can't see, which gives it that edgy feeling, like if I. [00:32:30] Speaker D: Step into the dark, like, I can't even see what's around me. What's going to happen next? [00:32:34] Speaker C: What's going to come up? It's. It's a place, though, I think, where we can contact mystery because in the. [00:32:42] Speaker D: Light we can be really focused on. [00:32:44] Speaker C: What we see and what we know. [00:32:46] Speaker D: What we understand and what we grasp. [00:32:48] Speaker C: But there's really so much to the world that we don't know. I think there's. There was a quote, something like 5%. [00:32:56] Speaker D: Or less than 5% of the world. [00:32:58] Speaker C: Is known and explainable by science. And that. [00:33:02] Speaker D: That leaves 95% is either dark energy or dark matter. [00:33:06] Speaker C: And so that. [00:33:07] Speaker D: That becomes. [00:33:08] Speaker C: That's like, whoa. [00:33:09] Speaker D: Really? [00:33:09] Speaker C: Like, because I think our brains can often think. [00:33:12] Speaker D: Well, most of the world's understandable. [00:33:14] Speaker C: They might. [00:33:14] Speaker D: We. [00:33:14] Speaker C: We might easily think. [00:33:15] Speaker D: It's 95. [00:33:16] Speaker C: That's understandable. It's like 5%. That's not. But those statistics, which are scientific, give. [00:33:21] Speaker D: Us a sense of how big the. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Mystery really is, the mystery of life and how little we really know. And the dark is a way for us to be in contact with that mystery and just like, to say. Yes, like, to step into actually a visceral feeling of it in our bodies. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And what. What practices? Like, say if this was igniting something in someone who was listening, what. What practices would you recommend? Oh, like, do you have any little kind of. You always have little antidotes. [00:34:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, like, I think of darkness a lot. [00:34:03] Speaker D: Like a being. [00:34:04] Speaker C: Like. Like, we, like, even, like, we're talking. [00:34:07] Speaker D: About dreams and nature. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Like, the darkness is a. Is an entity. So we're starting to think about how. [00:34:13] Speaker D: Do I want to be in relationship. [00:34:14] Speaker C: To darkness or what's my relationship with. [00:34:17] Speaker D: Darkness already, even when I. Maybe I'm not paying attention. [00:34:21] Speaker C: And so a practice could be to go out at night, you know, obviously in a safe place where you know and somebody else knows where you are. [00:34:30] Speaker D: In case you don't return. [00:34:31] Speaker C: You know, all the safety protocol. But to go out into that dark place and to, like, have a relationship with the dark, like, talk to the. [00:34:39] Speaker D: Dark feel in your body what's evoked. [00:34:42] Speaker C: Inside me in the presence of darkness. [00:34:45] Speaker D: You might actually intentionally go to a. [00:34:47] Speaker C: Space in the dark where the moonlight. [00:34:50] Speaker D: And the starlight are hidden from you. [00:34:51] Speaker C: And it's like, really dark. Or you can even go into a cave, but someplace where you're just like. [00:34:56] Speaker D: Wow, this is really. [00:34:58] Speaker C: This is real darkness. And then you're just exploring, how do. [00:35:03] Speaker D: I feel in darkness? [00:35:04] Speaker C: You might be surprised. [00:35:05] Speaker D: The first time I really had a conversation, a ceremonial conversation with darkness, was. [00:35:10] Speaker C: On my first quest. And I had planned unconsciously for that three day, three night solo to be asleep when it was dark. I was planning to be awake when it was light. That was my plan. But that was not mystery's plan. Mystery's plan was that I was going to have difficulty sleeping and therefore be forced to face the night. And so obviously, I can't lay in a sleeping bag for. For, like, more than a couple hours. So I had to come out and just engage with the night. And I was surprised at the beginning of my conversation was I'm really scared of You, I didn't think that that was the case because, you know, what's there to be scared of, you know. [00:35:56] Speaker D: And I'm big and tough and I. [00:35:57] Speaker C: Do this and I'm a wilderness guide. But the reality was that there was something that I wanted to hide or sleep from. And so that was the beginning place. [00:36:07] Speaker D: Of starting my relationship. [00:36:08] Speaker C: Just a confession to the darkness. And then the darkness is conversation back. [00:36:17] Speaker E: From within. The humble home is the potential for great change, the potential to see our children in a way that keeps them more whole, more deeply connected to the truth of who they are so that they may serve the world from their hearts. If you feel called to expand your ideas around what education truly is and how to tend to the soul or the hearth of our families while keeping each person's true essence intact, you are invited to consider a one to one familial wisdom session. A personal exploration around the practicalities of how life centric learning could look within your family constellation. For more information, visit luminous youth.org. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Yeah, and that like, makes me think of like so many of our children are afraid of the dark. And I wonder whether that's because we spend so little time as that. You know, like they, our energies are so entwined and I wonder if they just learn that through our fear of the dark or them not seeing us engaging in the dark or with the darkness. I love what you just said that you just said to the darkness. I'm really afraid of you. Like, I just feel like that's, imagine darkness just going, oh, and Martin Shaw, I love Martin Shaw, talks a lot about the darkness and how a lot of the rituals and, and stuff were specifically down in, you know, the womb of the earth, like dark and down and in, you know, rather than up and ascend and light, it's like there's also these beautiful gifts waiting for us in the, in the, the darker womb of the earth. Something else that you talk about in your book, but also in working with you, is what I love that you call a muse directed life. And I feel like that just entwines so beautifully with a lot of what our community is about and what we're trying so hard to open up the possibility of within our children and their educational experience and their living experience. But I love how you speak to it. And so I'd love to just let you really kind of tease that out of. What, what is a muse directed life? [00:39:02] Speaker C: Yeah. And you know, I just want to take one step back before we go into muse directed life because it, it's Connecting the darkness and muse directed life. But a lot of what can arise. [00:39:14] Speaker D: In the darkness is our imagination. [00:39:18] Speaker C: And that's often given a bad rap, like, oh, who cares about that, you know, or that's kid stuff. [00:39:23] Speaker D: But actually, imagination is so key in this work. Here we're talking about the relationship with. [00:39:28] Speaker C: Nature, the relationship with our body, with dreams, with muses. [00:39:32] Speaker D: And imagination is key in all of those. [00:39:36] Speaker C: We think in this, in our dominant culture, thinks I think, and therefore I am. Like, thinking is the way I navigate the world. But what if imagination was. [00:39:46] Speaker D: And by imagination I kind of mean not necessarily like our, just our general. [00:39:51] Speaker C: Creativity, where our mind and our imagination. [00:39:54] Speaker D: Kind of swirl and mix together. [00:39:55] Speaker C: Like our mind comes up with an idea and our imagination plays with it. [00:39:58] Speaker D: But I'm talking about a deeper imagination where you just wait, not knowing to. [00:40:03] Speaker C: See what comes up. [00:40:04] Speaker D: And that's often a practice in darkness. [00:40:06] Speaker C: Is you just see what arises. Like, again, not in control, which can be scary. Like, what's going to come up? [00:40:12] Speaker D: Could it be a feeling, a memory, an image, a dream, a sensation? [00:40:17] Speaker C: And so that's like our deeper imagination. [00:40:19] Speaker D: And that's a lot of times the. [00:40:20] Speaker C: Way we receive communication from, you know, the earth or the dreamtime through our imagination and also from our muse. So when we move on to this topic, how do I have a muse directed life? Well, the beginning is having a relationship with the muse at all, which can take time. Some people just automatically do it. There's some artists that, for whatever reason, they're just, they found the, the relationship and the, in the, in the tack, and they just, they're off for someone like myself, I think, you know, on. [00:40:53] Speaker D: Some level, even as a child, I had the connection to the muse and. [00:40:56] Speaker C: Creativity, but I also learned to kind of disconnect from it. And so it took some time to. [00:41:03] Speaker D: Reconnect with the muse. [00:41:04] Speaker C: I. I was actually probably courting the museum for about three years before I really felt the presence of the muse and courting what I would call the beloved. [00:41:16] Speaker D: So sometimes that means going to places. [00:41:19] Speaker C: And engaging in experiences where, you know, the muse, the beloved, the inner beloved is going to be very happy with me. Like, where the muse will show up, like, you know, come to me muse. Like, where is the, where is the muse going to be? You know, if I'm doing something that doesn't bring me alive, that just feels. [00:41:39] Speaker D: Contained, that might not be a place. [00:41:40] Speaker C: The muse will come. The muse might whisper, not that interested in visiting you in that, you know, cubicle. Find me in another spot. But that Might not be true for some people. [00:41:52] Speaker D: Again, like wilderness, the muse is not. [00:41:54] Speaker C: The same for everybody. [00:41:55] Speaker D: And where it might encounter them can be very variable. [00:41:59] Speaker C: I don't think my muse would like a cubicle. I'll just say that much like my muse wants me outside a lot. And you know, is, has writing is a way that it's asked me to explore and play. So and it's been a development over many years. So what? [00:42:17] Speaker D: How it started isn't how it is now. [00:42:18] Speaker C: It's like there's always a new chapter. I mean, I could write a book or maybe even a few just about my relationship with my muse. And there's so many. [00:42:28] Speaker D: It shifts over time. [00:42:29] Speaker C: Living a muse directed life, our muse. [00:42:31] Speaker D: Doesn'T always remain exactly the same face. [00:42:34] Speaker C: Shape and sound over time, but our dreams and our experiences in nature and. [00:42:40] Speaker D: With our deep imagination and what arises. [00:42:42] Speaker C: Can keep informing that. And also who and what we fall. [00:42:45] Speaker D: In love with is a very big. [00:42:47] Speaker C: Key to following our muse. [00:42:49] Speaker D: Following our muse is a little bit. [00:42:51] Speaker C: Like, can you really go toward what you really love? That's where the muse will show up. [00:43:02] Speaker A: And that, that seems so far away. Often we have to relearn how to do that, don't we? When we've grown up being, being told we're good for. For ignoring the muse and for doing what others expect of us and what others, you know, and maybe not even people, but maybe just our whole system that we live in congratulates us for, for me for ignoring my muse. And so it took me and still like it's a real effort for me to actually even access the beautiful muse. And. Yeah, so I hope you do write those books. Yes, it's, it's a, it's a. I think it's such a. I don't know, for me it just feels so central and, and I love seeing when young people are free, how clear it is. How clear it is. It's yes and it's no. It's like this makes me feel alive and amazing and I'm so excited and my heart is just calling me in that direction. It's just so clear in them when they're allowed to, to live a muse directed life. [00:44:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it's true. Yeah. There's a really a lot of connection to both heart and imagination in, in the muse directed life. And it is. It. [00:44:40] Speaker D: I love that term too because as. [00:44:42] Speaker C: We know, plenty of other people in the world want to direct our life like a, you know, a hierarchical, top down directed life, you know, a boss directed life, a family direct you know, it's like there's always somebody that wants us to play roles so it can be a real challenge, like, how can I live A muse directed life in the context of a world where everybody else wants to direct me rather than hear from my muse? Yeah, but our. Just to say a couple more things about the muse. [00:45:15] Speaker D: The muse is our unique way of. [00:45:16] Speaker C: Seeing the world is one way you could describe it. No one else sees the world. Like, our muse helps us see the world. [00:45:24] Speaker D: And it can be both exhilarating and terrifying again. Exhilarating that we can see this. It's like it feels sacred, holy, like. [00:45:32] Speaker C: Wow, look what I'm seeing. [00:45:34] Speaker D: But it also can feel terrifying because. [00:45:36] Speaker C: It'S like, why doesn't anybody else see this? [00:45:38] Speaker D: Like, why am I the only one? [00:45:40] Speaker C: And you might try to communicate it. [00:45:42] Speaker D: Try to show it. [00:45:43] Speaker C: And it's like. But they're not getting it. And in some ways, that's. That's our work. Our muse wants us to show this to the world. But it can feel really risky because it's like, well, the world doesn't believe in that stuff. You know, like, you'll be made fun of or things like that. [00:46:00] Speaker D: Because. [00:46:01] Speaker C: Because you're explaining this thing, nobody's going to get. You know, how can I possibly say this thing that deals, like, the muse really wants me to share, but nobody. [00:46:11] Speaker D: How will anyone understand? [00:46:14] Speaker A: Yeah, and that, and that, and that's. Oh, it's just the core, isn't it? It's like that's our gift. Like that's what the world wants from us. And like you said, it's like exhilarating and terrifying. And as. Once I. I think I understood that. That, that is my gift, and that is almost like my responsibility to bring as a gift, as an offering, as a gratitude. It made it seem more important to me. And what, what, like, what it makes. As you were speaking, I was thinking on the question that I had here about female ferocity, thought maybe they were linked. This is like, maybe having that for ourselves, having this female ferocity for ourselves, and, and almost for our. For our muse. So what is that? And how. How can we embody that? And, and, and what. How do we use that in the world? [00:47:24] Speaker C: The ferocity itself. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Yeah, like the, the energy of that, like. [00:47:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, you know, that it's. I think that's a great starting place for the courage it takes to allow emotions that aren't allowed. For the most part, ferocity is usually not something that's welcomed into a space, oftentimes, especially for. For Women, maybe even children, or maybe anyone that's just supposed to behave themselves, you know, it's like. Or just supposed to chill, you know, so it's. It's not. So how can I allow this emotion? And it can become hard to do that because we have all these voices that say, oh, like, I've worked with people that have had dreams about this angry part of themselves, and they're like, but I'm not like that, and I don't want to be like that. And it's like the dream is like. [00:48:22] Speaker D: Coming back to them, showing them this energy. [00:48:24] Speaker C: And what is it? Can I come to respect this energy in myself? And I think another part is that in our culture, there's so many harmful uses of anger that people just lump it all together. Any form of anger is bad, period. And that's. That makes it hard. It's like, no, that's actually not true. [00:48:46] Speaker D: There are ways anger gets acted out. [00:48:48] Speaker C: That'S really harmful and, you know, and sick. And there's also a health to anger. You know, if you're. If you ever do trauma work, anger. [00:48:58] Speaker D: Is often the emotion of becoming unfrozen. [00:49:01] Speaker C: So in the healing journey, if we've. [00:49:04] Speaker D: Not been able to feel the horrors. [00:49:05] Speaker C: Sometimes the first response is this, like. [00:49:08] Speaker D: Anger that can be just hard to tolerate. [00:49:10] Speaker C: Like, oh, so it's like, how can I. How can I just be with that? [00:49:15] Speaker D: Like, how can I kind of calm. [00:49:17] Speaker C: My nervous system and be curious that. [00:49:20] Speaker D: Maybe this is a gift in some. [00:49:21] Speaker C: Way, that this anger is a clue in some ways. When I look at the state of the world, I'm like, if we could just get more angry, then maybe we would do something. Maybe we would change something. [00:49:35] Speaker D: And so our anger is like a clue. [00:49:37] Speaker C: Like, something's not right here. [00:49:39] Speaker D: Our boundaries have been crossed. The ones we love, whether it's humans. [00:49:44] Speaker C: Or the earth, the ones we love. [00:49:46] Speaker D: Their boundaries have been crossed. [00:49:48] Speaker C: It's not okay with me. It's not okay with me that I'm harmed and that the ones that I. [00:49:54] Speaker D: Love, human or non human, are harmed. [00:49:56] Speaker C: And I'm not going to be peaceful about it. [00:49:58] Speaker D: I'm not going to be calm. [00:49:59] Speaker C: Like, I'm angry. And this, you know, that's a, you. [00:50:03] Speaker D: Know, anger like, that is an anger that comes from. From love. [00:50:07] Speaker C: And there's a. Like a mama bear protecting her cubs. [00:50:11] Speaker D: And that's what feral female ferocity is. [00:50:14] Speaker C: And it can exist in people, whatever their sex or gender. Gender. It's this protective ferocity energy that's like, I love what I love. And Gosh darn it, I will not let it be harmed and I will get in the way of anyone who. [00:50:28] Speaker D: Tries to harm what I love and. [00:50:29] Speaker C: I will do whatever it takes to protect what I love. [00:50:37] Speaker A: I love that so much. Makes me feel really emotional because, yeah, it's just so prevalent in our society, you know, and like, my first thought is for women, but having sons, I actually, I actually see it as prevalent in them. Healthy anger, you know, like healthy directed. Using that energy to, to protect and also to like, to make strong moves in a certain direction. You know, like, I don't think any of us really, unless we've done a lot of work, our, our society as it exists now doesn't really teach us how to be with that feeling so that we can utilize it in a really healthy way. So I love hearing about that. I love hearing you speak to that because it makes that rise up in me. And, and I know that as a mother, I often, I often have to find that part of myself. And it's, it's not something that I've, I've been taught from a young girl. Like, it's not like from a young girl I've been out and watching mama bears protect their cubs. Do you know what I mean? Like, I haven't seen healthy. As a young girl, I didn't really see healthy examples of that. And therefore I, it kind of. Then I, I became frozen like you said. And I think, and I'm only just using myself an easy example because I feel like my story is a common story. It's not a unique story. It is unique, but it's, it's very common. So I, I love exploring that. And, and yeah, I really, I'm grateful for you to, to bring that to the table. Yeah. [00:52:28] Speaker C: There's a book called Rage Becomes her, and in it they say what women need in these times isn't. Isn't anger management. It's strategic use of anger. [00:52:42] Speaker A: Wouldn't things change? I think that's really, really clever. And I actually saw another name of a book and I wrote it down and I haven't read it, but I was like, yeah, it was like using, using anger as influence. I can't remember the name, but I was like, oh, that. Like, like you said, like strategic use of anger. I think that that's a skill that we, we could, we could do well to, to. And, and, and, and like everything that you talk about it is just like, I guess we begin by having a relationship with it. Is that how. Where you would say is a, to. [00:53:21] Speaker C: Begin to have a relationship with the anger. [00:53:25] Speaker A: Yeah. With this female, feral female ferocity. [00:53:29] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like. It's kind of like anger. You could consider anger like the scapegoat that you might have always wanted to throw out of the house, but now. [00:53:38] Speaker D: Consider, well, what if I just invited. [00:53:40] Speaker C: That one in for tea and realized that she might have something valuable to contribute? [00:53:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:47] Speaker C: And. And doing our best just to tolerate it. [00:53:49] Speaker D: I think one of the hardest things about being with anger is tolerating it. [00:53:52] Speaker C: It's not an easy feeling to feel. It's like it feels very uncomfortable. Like it's. You want it to be better and it's not. It's like it's. [00:54:02] Speaker D: The anger's there. [00:54:03] Speaker C: So just trying to get comfortable, like breathe, you know, you know, relax. [00:54:09] Speaker D: Trying to get comfortable with the anger. [00:54:11] Speaker C: And trust that there's a valuable message in it is a good way to start. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And for me, often when I have done that, when I've sat with my anger underneath the anger as that kind of dissipates because I'm giving it my full presence and understanding and not pushing it away, I'm sitting with this anger. Often what's underneath that is grief. Like a deep grief. Often after anger comes tears, doesn't it? So I'd love to hear. I. I know you speak about grief and loss a lot and then also associating that with like earth grief. So there's like our personal journey with grief and loss. You know, maybe. Maybe we can even just separate them and speak to that first. Like what place that plays what I don't actually feel like. There's a huge amount of time and space and presence and ritual given to this, like powerful emotions and feelings that come up with grief and loss. I think we're all a bit grief and loss illiterate in our modern society. So I'd love to. I'd really love to kind of sit in that and just hear your experience with working with that and inspiring us to be able to. To sit with that and just also see the, the wisdom in. In being again in those uncomfortable feelings and emotions that come up. Because it isn't the most comfortable place, but it's such a rich place. [00:56:00] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, grief has a lot of. [00:56:03] Speaker D: Faces and anger is often one of. [00:56:05] Speaker C: The faces of grief. It's. Or rage might be a better way of saying it. Just rage like. [00:56:14] Speaker D: And sometimes that energy comes with an. A more action oriented, like, I want. [00:56:19] Speaker C: To do something about it or I want to fight someone. But you know, our tears and our. [00:56:25] Speaker D: Sadness is another form of grief which has a bit more of a feeling of letting go. [00:56:32] Speaker C: Sometimes fear is part of grief in that, you know, feeling all the grief, it's just terrifying to be at the edge of it. [00:56:41] Speaker D: And sometimes confusion is also a part of grief. [00:56:46] Speaker C: Like, what's going on here? Like, what's happening? [00:56:48] Speaker D: Why do I feel this way? What's happening to me? [00:56:50] Speaker C: What's happening to the world? And you know, all of those faces of, of grief, they. They have gifts like rage and anger. [00:57:00] Speaker D: Connect us to a care for justice. Sadness connects us to love. Confusion can connect us to mystery. [00:57:10] Speaker C: The unknown, the emptiness and the fear. [00:57:16] Speaker D: Can connect us to courage. [00:57:18] Speaker C: So, you know, when we be with our emotions, whatever they are, there's a, There's a positive gift side of it too. [00:57:29] Speaker A: And I guess, yeah, just acknowledging, acknowledging the importance of, of. Of giving it time so that those things can come through as well. I know, like when I've read and what I've experienced, you know, perhaps like a really casual ritual, just even on my own around grief, it takes it from this kind of locked feeling into something else. It's like it, it allows it to become those other things you speak of. Would you agree with that? Like, that when we don't look at it, it kind of can stay locked in this, like, in this grief, and it's the presence that allows it to become those other things. [00:58:24] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, like I, I think of the grief is like a dam when we don't feel it. It's like dammed up water, you know, just kind of stuck and not a lot of life or movement. And when, but when we do step. [00:58:37] Speaker D: Into, into grief, in some ways it's. [00:58:39] Speaker C: Like a cauldron, like a portal. Like we don't quite know where it's taking us. [00:58:45] Speaker D: That's why we could step in with. [00:58:46] Speaker C: Our rage and then suddenly we could. [00:58:49] Speaker D: Fall apart into tears, and then we could be confused and then we might. [00:58:52] Speaker C: Not know where we're going after that. So. [00:58:56] Speaker D: And that's why grief is a portal. [00:58:58] Speaker C: Being that meaning it can change us. Just feeling it, it can change us. [00:59:02] Speaker D: We can have visions. [00:59:03] Speaker C: We can see things differently than we did before. Just like darkness is a portal, darkness can change us. So. [00:59:12] Speaker D: And it's a terrifying, I say portal for people nowadays. Sometimes we're so used to in our. [00:59:17] Speaker C: Culture not feeling anything, especially anything really intense. And some people even say, and I think it's true that we have generations of ungrieved grief, you know, from our ancestors and the way that our cultures have lived. For. For some generations now. So it can be a lot to. To be at the edge of welcoming what wants to come and where it might take us when there's. When there's so much. [00:59:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And when. When we do that, like, when we do that, I think it's also. It's such a gift to our descendants, like you said. Like, if we're sitting in our grief, there is all this ancestral grief that comes up as well because it lives in us. And I think it's such important work to do because. Yeah, it's. It's just. It's such a gift to our. To our children and then their children. And. Yeah. It just not. Not only does it reprieve them of having to get that handed down, but it also offers them skills because with how the world is right now, we really do need to understand how to navigate grief. Because, you know, this Earth grief that is happening as well is going to, you know, it's not going away anytime soon. And so I feel like not only do we lift the load a little bit lighter for our descendants, but we also offer skills that they would sort of innately pick up from seeing us practice grief. Do you agree with that? [01:00:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. It's. [01:00:59] Speaker D: It's. [01:00:59] Speaker C: It's a. It's a connection through the generations back in the generations forward, you know, crying the tears, our own and the ones that didn't get cried, and we're paving, you know, opening an invitation energetically for future generations. [01:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And as far as Earth grief. Yeah, it's a. It's such a. I'd love to hear you speak to Earth grief. I. You know, like, there's so much. And I know that that's such. It's like almost like a whole topic on its own that we could just sort of seed here. This. It's. And I feel like when I sit with that, it's like it's Earth grief for knowing. For knowing what was like. For an example, we have these pigeons. I can't remember the proper name. I'm not like, a good name, remember? And they, like, they all land in the trees and they fly to flat. A flapper flat. And then they, like, fly. Fly off at once and make this sound. And it's like, so exhilarating. And they come in autumn and winter, and I am, like, so in love with them and that sound. And then I heard from an ecologist that there used to be thousands of these birds, and the sound was deafening when they flew off together. And I felt this huge grief. Like, I'll never hear that sound like that would have been amazing. And so there's that, that kind of grief of knowing what was. And then there's this Earth grief of like seeing what's happening and feeling completely powerless to, to what's happening. And I'm sure there's lots of other aspects, but those are the two aspects that, that came up for me when I sat with that as a, as a exploration. What, what would you love to share around that kind of vast topic? [01:03:09] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, I think, you know, sometimes it's, it's even just giving ourselves permission again, like, to see and feel what's happening to the Earth. You know, there, if we do the, the other work of nature connection, we know that we are connected to the Earth. Like what happens to her happens to us. And it seems like that's not true in modern culture, which separates us, but. [01:03:34] Speaker D: We can feel it. Like, we can feel it. We can feel it when we're in. [01:03:37] Speaker C: A really intact wild place and we. [01:03:40] Speaker D: Feel how our body feels in that. [01:03:41] Speaker C: Place and in relationship with that place. And then we can feel how we feel when we're in a place being harmed and we can feel the harm happening. [01:03:49] Speaker D: If you're at all sensitive and how. [01:03:52] Speaker C: That makes you feel like, you know, one of my favorite sayings in my. [01:03:56] Speaker D: Book is our wellness and the wellness. [01:03:58] Speaker C: Of the planet are connected. In other words, we can't focus on. [01:04:02] Speaker D: Our wellness and then destroy the planet. [01:04:04] Speaker C: Because that's going to destroy us. So, yeah, so. [01:04:09] Speaker D: So when we see Earth destruction happening. [01:04:11] Speaker C: It'S like if we were to see. [01:04:13] Speaker D: Our parent or our child or our. [01:04:16] Speaker C: Sister being harmed, you know, there's a way, like we would react. And even if it's at the edge of our consciousness, there's a way that our body might be reacting to what's happening in feeling like disgust or overwhelm or, you know, any number of different feelings. You know, bereft, you know, like sad, angry. You know, there's like so many possible. [01:04:46] Speaker D: Feelings that could come up as part. [01:04:47] Speaker C: Of, part of the earth grief. But it's, it's allowing ourselves to like, really feel those feelings and not like it's, there's so easy. It's so hard in our culture to do that because there's like, oh, well. [01:05:00] Speaker D: I don't want to be a downer. [01:05:01] Speaker C: You know, and I don't want to bring up this, you know, stuff that's so hard. You know, nobody wants to hear about this. So it's, it can be hard in our Culture or why should I focus on that? [01:05:10] Speaker D: I have too much to do. [01:05:11] Speaker C: I have. I have to, like, focus on what. [01:05:12] Speaker D: I can control, not on what I can't control. [01:05:15] Speaker C: There's many, many things to keep us from allowing ourselves to really go there. But one of the things. And I think it's. I think it's Buhner who says that. [01:05:25] Speaker D: In his book Earth Grief. [01:05:26] Speaker C: I'm looking up to see if it's. Yeah, there's a whole. There's a whole book on that topic. Yeah. By Buhner. It's the second he ever wrote. And he. So he says this in his book, which I quoted in my book, but that maybe the Earth grief that we. [01:05:43] Speaker D: Feel is messages from the Earth, like. [01:05:45] Speaker C: Actually coming up through our body. Like, what's happening wants to be felt. And so. And. And I love that perspective because too often in our culture we think, oh, man, I'm sad. Like, I gotta fix that and be happy, or what's wrong with me that. [01:06:01] Speaker D: I'm so sad or that I'm so angry? [01:06:03] Speaker C: No, like. And so this book is saying, actually it's quite normal you if. Especially if there's destruction going on and harm happening around you, for your body to naturally feel like what's happening. And that if we let ourselves feel. [01:06:18] Speaker D: It, maybe that's one of the most. [01:06:20] Speaker C: Important things we can do. Imagine if all the humans felt it. Maybe we would be moved to act. [01:06:27] Speaker D: Differently and change the culture. [01:06:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:38] Speaker C: It. [01:06:39] Speaker A: And it takes. I think it takes. I'm having a bit of a teary moment here. It takes a lot of. I love Sharon, actually. Sharon. Blackie has this saying, and I can't. I can't remember it word for word, but she's like. Talks about the land that you long for, like, knowing that it actually longs for you as well. And. Yeah, and I've heard other, you know, beautiful things of, like, the greatest gifts that we can give the Earth is our tears, because then it knows we care. And. Yeah, I feel like. I feel like this is a really. I know that it does feel like a downer, and it is intense, but I. I think I really like bringing it to the table because I think it's actually something our kids really have to sit, you know, right in their lap. They have Earth grief to. To. To. To deal with in their lifetime so intensely. And it can be really easy to go into apathy. And so I. Again, I feel like it's really. It's such a gift to them if we can learn to navigate this. This feeling. And I Don't know, like I feel like awaken this kind of warrior inside of ourselves, this peace warrior or. I think I actually think you wrote about that, didn't you? This Love warrior. Yeah. Who can feel those things? Who has learned how to feel that and act from that place? Whether it's Earth Grief, whether it's protecting our children from, you know, situations that we don't feel serves their body, whether it's their education, whether it's, you know, all the things that we, we experience as mothers or parents or people who care for children in any capacity, I feel like understanding that at. And I think that's what Earth Grief teaches us if we can be with it. And I love that book of Stephen Haribuna. He is my biggest teacher ever. I. It just his wording throughout that book is just the most divine thing, I think. But yeah, let's finish up on. Now that I just said it. The. The Love Warrior. Who is the Love Warrior? I remember when our daughter, me and Paul's daughter were born and like all we could call her was the Love Warrior. So when I read that book, I was really touched. What's a Love Warrior? [01:09:26] Speaker C: Well, I think it's a lot. [01:09:28] Speaker D: The culmination of all we're talking about. [01:09:30] Speaker C: It's. No, there's a reason that it's the last chapter in the book. You know, it takes a lot of all the other practices throughout the book. [01:09:38] Speaker D: To really come to that Love warrior. [01:09:40] Speaker C: And I love that combination because people of words. Because a lot of times people think, well, how should I engage with the problem? Should I just love the world and love everybody or should I really fight for what's right? You know, it seems like an either or question, but in the culmination of. [01:09:59] Speaker D: The book, we bring that together into a love Warrior. [01:10:02] Speaker C: It's. It's one who does. Who is courageous enough to fight and. [01:10:08] Speaker D: Act and speak on behalf of what they love. [01:10:11] Speaker C: But that fight and that energy is, you know, coming from love, what I care so much about. So I'm going to devote my life to. To fighting for what I love. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Yes. [01:10:26] Speaker C: You know, it's. It's interesting Warrior. [01:10:29] Speaker D: Back in olden days, it used to be like a great honor to be a warrior. [01:10:33] Speaker C: Like it was, you know, you learned sword fighting or martial arts or, or. [01:10:38] Speaker D: Something, and it was considered like you were, you were a knight or you. [01:10:42] Speaker C: Were, you know, some, some someone that fought. You know, you had strength and courage. And in our culture in these times, people say, well, fighting, that's not good. Like we should just Solve everything peacefully. [01:10:59] Speaker D: Of course, plenty of violence does happen unspoken. This. This is another topic I could talk. [01:11:03] Speaker C: About in another book, but I think there's a lot of ways people are violent with each other and things that then. [01:11:10] Speaker D: With language, simply with language, you know. [01:11:12] Speaker C: Like backstabbing somebody or throwing somebody under. [01:11:15] Speaker D: The bus or talking about somebody, you. [01:11:17] Speaker C: Know, those are all, like, those are all fighting things to do, but it's. [01:11:22] Speaker D: Done kind of under the guise of peace, like. [01:11:24] Speaker C: Oh, like this is all love and peace. I'm not really doing anything, you know, so it's very underhanded. And so, you know, I think war is really going on when people say there's peace. And I also think that sometimes it's good to be intentional about. [01:11:42] Speaker D: Well, of course, we're. We're all here fighting for something. [01:11:44] Speaker C: You know, we all believe in something, but there's some purpose. What. [01:11:48] Speaker D: What am I fighting for? What do I believe in? What am I putting my life on the. On the line for? What is worth fighting for? And how can I be one of. [01:11:55] Speaker C: Those warriors, like, in. [01:11:57] Speaker D: In the storybooks? [01:11:58] Speaker C: Like, that is, you know, kind of a hero's journey. Like, I'm really courageous and. And willing to stand up for what I love, you know, whether I fight. [01:12:07] Speaker D: With a sword or whether I fight. [01:12:09] Speaker C: With my words, you know, or just my presence or my way of living. [01:12:18] Speaker A: Or my pen. Yeah. And I think that. That it does bring it all around, because in order to know what is worth fighting for, we might. We have to know ourselves. Like, we have to know our gift. We have to know what it is that, you know, Erica finds worth fighting for. And what Rebecca is, you know, feels is worth fighting for. And so all the practices that you've spoken about and all the aspects that we've spoken. Spoken about are what I think. Yeah. Like you said, that culminates in. In being a love warrior. [01:12:57] Speaker C: Yep. [01:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm wondering if you can let people know where they can engage with you more and. And hear more of what you say. I. I know that you write so beautifully. You have an amazing substack account. It's Rebecca Wild Bear, isn't it? [01:13:22] Speaker C: It is. Yep. Yep. [01:13:24] Speaker A: And is there anywhere that they can find you? [01:13:29] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a. There's the substack, and I'm on social media, Facebook and Instagram, and I'm going to be starting. [01:13:40] Speaker D: I have a YouTube channel that I'm. [01:13:42] Speaker C: About to start to delve more into in the next. In the coming couple of months, adding material. So. Yeah. And you'll find my website, Rebecca wildbear.com. [01:13:53] Speaker D: Which will list programs. [01:13:54] Speaker C: I'm doing some programs in person and. [01:13:59] Speaker D: There is some online programs as well. [01:14:02] Speaker C: And also you could probably find me on the Animus website too. I have programs that I guide for Animus and the Animus Australia website. You'll be able to look at their website and see. See what? I'm coming over, I think. I think I'm planning to come over in February next year. [01:14:17] Speaker A: So fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing not only your words of wisdom, but just the energetic of sitting with you is always so nourishing and I'm so grateful for your clarity and your beautiful heart and also all that you've experienced, experienced in your life and all of the courage you have, you have, you know, culminated in yourself to become this woman who helps so many people find themselves. So I'm so grateful. Rebecca. [01:14:56] Speaker D: Thank you. [01:14:57] Speaker C: Thank you so much. What a joy it's been to be with you. I've really loved your questions and this conversation and, and what you're exploring and. [01:15:05] Speaker D: Offering in your life too. Thank you for including me. [01:15:07] Speaker C: It was great to be here. [01:15:09] Speaker A: Thanks Rebecca. [01:15:12] Speaker E: Thank you for joining us today. For more inspiration, nourishment and learning, please Visit [email protected] Moyeo Erbo Sarasto Crijo Cuo laoja. Com Adribo May you trust the longing of your heart to lead you home. Prayer words in my ancestral mother tongue Proto Celtic.